Bill c-15 and mandatory minimum sentences

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    • #10774
      gearhunter
      Participant

      I know that I am opening a can of worms here but I am curious how most people feel about the new mandatory minimum sentences that are now before the Senate for a vote. Specifically but not inclusive to the issue of growing marijuana and the sentences that will be imposed when this law is passed. I am neither condoning or supporting the growing of pot. I am just at a loss that a number of years ago there was loose talk of decriminalization and now we are moving towards more jail sentences that seem to have not been that successful at curbing use and or crime in the US. I mean California is talking of decriminalizing so that they can pay down their massive debt…Any thoughts on the subject? :twisted: :shock:

    • #18819
      mikes
      Participant

      http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublication … 962&file=4

      the way I understand it, the manditory minimum is directed towards growers with the purpose of trafficing, or if the grower gets "help" with somebody under the age of 18. Or if it’s near a school. Or if it’s grown At the direction of organized crime. Or you have more than 1kg. This to me doesn’t sound horrible. As long as it excluded the grow your own, people. Which, I would think growing your own, in it’s own way helps reduce organized crime. If your growing your own your not supporting organized crimes. The trick would be to not keep scales around, or baggies. It’s the old prohibition aurgument all over again. I stand somewhere in the middle.

    • #18820
      gearhunter
      Participant

      "As long as it excluded the grow your own, people. Which, I would think growing your own, in it’s own way helps reduce organized crime."

      Good point.

      Like I said, I am not supporting or condoning growing…But I looked at the bill and although may have missed it, did not see anything that would make a distinction between mom and pop, or you average Canadian trying not to give their hard earned dough to some crime syndicate…So if you are ‘Joe Pot Smoker’ who is growing a couple of plants in your closet and you get caught, you go directly to jail and do not pass go. Trafficking to me is a misnomer since Joe could supply his buddies with a couple of joints and that could constitute trafficking…Seems a bit excessive to me. I mean look at the numbers from a recent poll…

      http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/view/35 … marijuana1

    • #18821
      fernielocal101
      Participant

      It wont happen, too many middle class pepole will have their kids go to jail…

    • #18822
      canadiankid
      Participant

      I totally agree with gearhunter but this is getting absurd, lets make pot growers hardened criminals but take it easy on the coke and crack/meth??? My statement is not as ridiculous as most people want to believe. I have seen many ppl get tossed in the can for a few plants for personal uses, while numerous coke/crack/meth dealers get busted with mass product and proceeds from their crimes and yet they dont do any hard time and usually they’re back to business less than 2 months. It looks like we are following our foolish cousins to the South……..IMHO :mrgreen:

    • #18823
      truth.be.told
      Participant

      Bill C-15 has become bill S-10 – and it’s pretty bad if you’re on the side of banishing prohibition. Which I am. Make it all legal across the board.

      Crazy, you say? Nope, the definition of crazy is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Prohibition against alcohol didn’t work in the 1900s, and it’s pretty clear that the "drug war" is a losing battle. And here our government is, proposing to get "tough on crime." If you’ll humour me, I will lay out why this is ridiculous.

      The term "controlled substances" took its moniker from Orwell’s 1984 and double speak. By making pot, cocaine, etc illegal, they are anything but controlled. Or rather, the control lies in the hands of the criminal element. So cops bust someone with a joint, get the person to "roll" on their dealer, who they get to rat out their supplier and so on until they MAYBE reach the top of the chain. Let’s consider what a waste of police resources this is (and courts – the Elk Valley can’t even try the cocaine dealers these days). If you look at drugs like Oxycodone, morphine, metahdone – these are prescribed by doctors. Yes, folks and doctors abuse the system, and some of these drugs end up on the street, but the cops already know who sits on the top of the chain – the doctors. I would think that it is a lot easier to monitor pharmacies and doctors then trying to figure out who the leader of gang is AND tying him/her to the drugs. It is also much harder to get your hands on drugs that aren’t "street drugs". When I was a teenager, I had NO difficulty finding LSD, pot, cocaine. A six-pack of beer? Not impossible, much, much harder.

      Mandatory minimums don’t work. The US penal system has pretty much proved that. Mandatory minimums don’t allow for context. Should the person who has 6 plants (the lowest amount requiring a minimum of 6 to 9 months) to treat a friend’s cancer pain get the same punishment as a Hell’s Angels operation of 200 plants? Should the person baking a batch of hash brownies (12 – 18 months) get MORE time than the Hell’s Angels grow-op?

      Mandatory minimums also tie up precious police resources. If the cops can close cases and look good with pretty much guaranteed convictions, they will focus on these cases instead of violent crime. There is no mandatory minimum for manslaughter.

      Mandatory minimums criminalize addiction, and unfairly target the downtrodden. Instead of getting help, the "criminal" goes to jail. Mandatory minimums tie up finite rehab services. Facing a mandatory sentence, a person with a recreational cocaine habit and the ability to pay a good lawyer will bargain rehab (which they don’t really need) for jail time – potentially taking space from someone who really wants and needs it.

      Mandatory minimums strengthen the criminal element. A gang member gets arrested, and he rolls on a rival gang member – knowing that person will be put away for a set length of time – roll on enough rival gang members and you eviscerate the gang for a time, making your own gang stronger. This already happens, but mandatory minimums have the potential to entrench this behaviour even further … which is quite the opposite of what is intended by this ludicrous legislation. Stronger penalties also means more prosperous business for gangs. The bigger the risk, the more their product costs, the more money they make … the more at stake, the more violence.

      Some people argue that if all of these street drugs were legal, there would be a lot more abuse. I disagree. There may be an initial spike, but ask yourself, if crystal meth was legal, would you do it? If heroin was legal, would you do it? Oxycondone is legal – do you do it? Some people would answer yes to these questions, but most of us answer no.

      By doing away with prohibition, the government takes real control. If the government passes S-10, we’re going to see a lot of growth in the wrong industries – more lawyers, more police, more prisons.

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