Albertans Unwelcome

[flamespowder]

A small number of local guides have managed to push through a fishing regulation naming all East Kootenay streams “classified” requiring a fee of $20 per day per stream to fish for non BC residents. No provision was made for property owners in the area. A total of 86% of licences sold in Fernie last year were non-resident and 80% of those were from Albertans. Obviously, they have sold one less this year and it will be very interesting to note the effects on local businesses and possibly property values. After a couple of lousy ski seasons and the general sense that we are unwelcome in the summer, there may indeed be more property for sale.

[zack]

The idea is to preserve and protect the Elk River as a heritage river not to make you feel unwelcome. Don’t be surprised that the Albertan “rape and pillage, ask questions later” policy isn’t welcomed in Fernie. I personally appreciate the new rules.

[flamespowder]

No problem – I used to walk down to the river a few times during summer evenings and cast a fly or two. I have always fished moving water catch and release and will now go elsewhere. The Elk is overcrowded with guides, many of which advertise that they also guide the Crowsnest and the Bow in Alberta. It will be intersting to see if a backlash occurs.

[sparkes]

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[username]

If Flames&Powder won’t buy a fishing licence this year and pay the $20 a day fee, then their plan is working. The government?Ç‚Äôs Ministry of Water, Land and Air Protection says the change is needed because the popular rivers are becoming over crowded. 86% less people on the elk river sounds about right to me. Due to the successful management of the rivers by the fisheries, it had attracted many guided and unguided anglers outside of B.C. B.C. anglers who have been fishing the southeastern rivers for years have noted a steady increase in pressure. Trailheads and drift boat access points now typically have several vehicles parked at them almost every day in the summer. And it is difficult to find a section of the river to wade without seeing dozens of boats go by in a day.
On the Elk River licensed commercial guides/assistants increased from 9, in 1995, to 52 in 2002. Guided days on the Elk jumped during the same period from 149 to more than 1500.

[flyingecko]

Well I m not saying the fee is a bad thing but I don’t agree with it at all. If there is going to be a fee, it shouldn’t be just for non-resident. I think the fee would do best if it was towards the guide that is taking the people fishing. I maybe wrong but they pay little to nothing to take someone out and get paid BIG dollars. so why shouldn’t they pay a fee to run the boats and so on. I enjoy fishin the area alot and would pay it but I think your avg joe shouldn’t have topay no matter where they are from, anywhere, not like we are making money off the river. and if keeping fish is the problem maybe look at getting more fish cops. in 6 yrs that I have been here and fished the area I have only seen one once.

[sparkes]

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[gagbandit]

I personally agree with conservation measures. I’ve been coming to Fernie for over 20 years, and have owned a second home here for just about as long. Years ago I was disappointed, but agreed, when they closed the Wigwam for conservation reasons…. Mr Bulltrout needed protection. I don’t agree with a discrimnatory Tax regime as an effective means of conservation however – especially when it singles out one group over another. The Gov’t is often more concerned with collecting a “mother nature” tax than truly conserving. A strict number of licenses would be more effective in my opinion.
I always find it disappoiting to see discriminatory attitudes on these posts – it reflects a broader problem and often reflects ignorance. For example to single out ALbertans as having a “rape and pilage attitude” promotes hatred. It also doesn’t reflect local reality here in the Elk. Over The last 18 months the Campbell gov’t has issued some of the largest leases to the oil companies so they can develope coal bed methane here in the Elk. And let us not forget the mainstay of the Elk economy – open pit coal mining. But I guess that is ok because it is not nasty albertans getting all the royalty $$$ – it’s the BC gov’t – and they are displaying just as much an appetite for “rape and pilage” royalty money as the King Ralph does.
B.T.W. last summer, while floating down the elk with my 8 year old son someone slashed all four of our tires. It taught him a real lesson of tolerance, charity and understanding. This hateful behaivour often bred by the kind of attitude reflected here. I love the Elk, Fernie and the whole area. I have always respected it and it’s residents. It’s too bad that some of them do not see their own economy and gov’t for what it is and choose instead to foster prejudicial attitudes while closing their eyes to reality.

[username]

[img:2s7r5tp6]http://www.geocities.com/furbijer/fat-bouncer.gif[/img:2s7r5tp6]

[sparkes]

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[flamespowder]

I guess I shouldn’t have started this thread Sparkes, my apologies. I have had a second home since 1988 in Fernie and pay taxes in Fernie every year; by the way as a second residence I do not use the services much and pay much more due to not being eligible for the homeowner grant. As for sticking up for the guides – they also guide on the southwestern Alberta streams – the Castle, Crowsnest and Bow without being discriminated against(check their ads in the fly shops). As a further comment to a previous post, a young guy who worked for me and grew up in Sparwood had the pleasant experience of having his windshield shot out after returning from a hike up Michel Creek. I think the yellow licence plates must have bugged someone.

[flamespowder]

OOPS I must be getting old – they haven’t been yellow for awhile – replace yellow with wild rose.

[sparkes]

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[gagbandit]

Sparkles

I do not know who slashed our tires and I never found out. When I called the RCMP he noted that the other four vehicles present, all which had BC plates were left untouched. I never found out who did it and the criminal was never charged.
My point is prejudice – and it’s disapponting. Like I said in my post I’ve been coming here for over twenty years. When Snow Valley was truly that, before FAR, before all the condo’s, before the developments and as I recall before the Elk was open for fishing. For me, Fernie still has that charm and I will keep coming. I am teaching my family about this special little spot on the planet. What bothers me is this growing intolerance. Perhaps it is preciptated by money loaded tourists, perhaps by absent land holders, perhaps by the run up of real estate prices – I don’t know. Usually its a result of ignorance.
When I read things like “rape and pilage albertans” or “albertains that complain about having to pay pst when they don’t live here” I’ll call it out. I could retort with equal examples but what good would that do ? It’s prejucicial and unhelpful. It also doesn’t reflect the welcoming attitude and great friendships I’ve cultivated here over the years. It simply promotes prejudice, hate, and for a mindless few somehow allows them to justify doing stupid things ( like maybe slashing albertan tires ) – I’d love to catch ’em and have them prosecuted.

[sparkes]

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[zack]

Its no secret that Alberta does very little to protect the environment. My intention was only to say that, not that individual Albertans are to blame. I didn’t slash your tires.

I’ve lived in both provinces at various times and have been the victim of more crimes in Alberta with BC plates than in BC with Alberta plates.

What does that mean??? Not a damn thing.

[sparkes]

Well said Zack

[tigermilk]

Fernie is full of “special” people. It’s up to you to decide which connotation best suites your situation. I can’t say that I’ve experienced anything ‘on the river’ as I leave the activity to those who enjoy it. I would assume that the same people slashing tires are the same individuals (or thier kids) who are picking fights in bars for absolutely NO reason. I have experienced this little ‘pleasure’ on more than one occasion and, as being a very passive person, this really drives me nuts…

…no, I wasn’t looking at your baby’s mama…

[snowangel]

fernie isn’t the only place full of ‘special people’. clearly from this post, which has gone from fishing licenses to vandalism, fernie isn’t the only place where tires are slashed, windows are broken, and unreasonable fights are picked at the bar. there’s a stabbing in a bar almost every weekend in calgary! i think that tourists are quick to blame locals and vice versa. it would be really nice if we could all get along like the grownups that we all are. in a perfect world that is.

[reggin]

Having lived in Baynes Lake when the Kootenay flowed freely it is startling to return and see lots of squished campgrounds. Surely a reasonable fee is not discriminatory??

It is not unusual to charge out of province/country people more for acccess to our resources. We can only hope they would be used wisely.

We used to fish for food in Baynes Lake itself but it is disapponting how much of it is blocked to access now.

Catch and release is the way to go unless you could prove some need to fish for food. Surely, we all would not like these rivers/lakes to end up similar to West Coast salmon.

And… does anyone from Baynes have any of its history??

[gavitron]

I just read the entire thread, and there is a lot going on to reply to! SO heres just some random thoughts that came to mind:
-I go to Alberta because I love NOT paying PST
-I’m relieved that I don’t have to pay $20 a day to fish here
-I DID however pay a one time fee this past year to fish in the Elk, as it is now “classified” ($25 or $30 if I recall correctly) and I was ok with that.
-I strolled down the Elk this summer as I always have, and noticed more and more damn (can we say that on here?) boats floating through my fishing spots.
-I left my car with BC plates unattended for hours on end….no resulting vandalism.
-I can admit, when I was younger I slashed a couple tires with no motive other than trying to be bad ass (apologies to whoevers tires those were)
-I get the feeling that the non-resident fees came into affect so that less people would fish here, so as offended as some may be, the plan must be working? Although I can’t see why we would want to scare people away.
-If I was asked my opinion, I would suggest a ban on boats, I can’t even imagine fishing the river in a boat, is that even enjoyable? Half the fun to me is wandering aimlessly up and down the shores all day.
-I catch less fish these days than I used to, but I still catch enough to keep myself happy. I am a little worried that in the future this will not be true.
-All I think when I see Albertan plates is “Great, this guy is gonna be slowing down for every frikin corner” (Nothing wrong with driving cautiously I suppose)

Anyways, thanks to everyone who does respect the river and your fellow fishermen.

[flamespowder]

Interesting reply Gavitron; as I started this thread I will reply one more time to it. We did not fish the Elk or anywhere else in the East Kootenays this summer, in fact we only visited once. We will ski this winter as RCR is fair in that they charge everyone the same for the priviledge of enjoying their mountain. As I said in my letter to the Chamber of Commerce however, we will do our best to only utilize the businesses on the Ski Hill itself as the town considers us to be only a “cash cow” for the locals. I hope we have a great ski season and I look forward to many happy powder days.

[seasonsgreetings]

Dear Flames
You last post made me sad and frustrated. Don’t know if you managed to look around the last time you were in Fernie, but local businesses are struggling. Lately we have had a small surge in businesses starting up, so hopefully we will see the town begin to thrive again.
Fernie needs your visitor dollars as well as those from the US and futher afield. This does not make you a cash cow – it’s just how tourism works. We provide services which generally people are happy to pay a high price for, because they can’t get that service where they live. (it’s why people go away on holiday) Locals get said service at a discounted rate because they are here providing the service and can’t afford the top rates because salaries are lower.
On a similar note, Fernie-ites spend a lot of cash in Calgary on items that we simply cannot get here, such as technology (computers etc) and furniture. Calgary is also our major airport, so we support that too. Are we your cash cow in terms of consumer goods and international transportation? I know you pay the same price as us for items you purchase there, but you don’t have a round trip of 7 hours to get them, and you do save the PST – we are supposed to come back to BC and pay the PST here, if the item is for a business.
It is interesting that you will come to Fernie and utilise the facilities at the ski hill, owned by RCR, who have their head office in Calgary, but avoid using facilities provided by so many hard working locals. These people can barely afford to live here any more because most of the houses are being bought up for second homes by people who don’t live here – (many from Calgary). The earning potential in the city is such that locals struggle to compete in the housing market. People have to live here to provide this mountain playground that you love so much, but on minimum wage, is it not fair that they get a deal on some of the fees? Perhaps you would prefer that there was no town at all, simply free wilderness for you to fish and hike to your hearts content. But then who would pay the taxes to provide the roads for you to get here, the hospitals to fix you when you fall off a cliff, the stores for you to get the milk you forgot to bring, or the auto-parts store for the spare bulb when your headlight blows?
I don’t fish, but I agree with the permit fees if it protects the river so that there will always be fish in it. I believe everybody should get a break when it comes to being able to play in their back yard, so I think it’s okay that locals get to pay less to fish the Elk.
If you are worried about discrimination, then try not to give us something to discriminate against. If you come here and stomp all over our pristine landscape, but refuse to help support the structure that keeps it pristine, then expect plenty of discrimination – it’s arrogance, pollution and stupidity we hate here, not Albertans – or is that the same thing?

[sparkes]

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[seasonsgreetings]

I didn’t mean to imply in any way that people can’t afford to live here, or that we would give it up because the cost of living has gone up – only that it has become much more difficult. The cost of housing has risen astronomically in the past five years, mainly due to non residents seeing Fernie as an ideal second home location. I know that some people have left in protest, but I (like most people) would prefer to pay a little more to live in paradise than to save cash by living in Calgary, or like Erica on another thread, in Coleman, and only get to enjoy Fernie once a month.

[moke]

Flames, you are so wrong..

I love Alberta, and find most Albertans to be fantastic, friendly people (even though they have a hard time driving around corners), but Flames, your attitude is so misguided, and frankly you should vacation in Banff or Jasper, where you do not have to worry about being treated like an outsider, we dont need that attitude that you bring with you here in Fernie. Have you ever thought how many of those people that you refuse to support downtown are former Albertans themselves…?

[canatedian]

At least the highways would be a bit safer.

Shame on you all for posting such negativeties, so close to Christmas.
I saw who slashed your tires on the night in question. It was a bit dark out right, but I’m pretty sure the guy looked alot like a Mr. R Mcnair.

Just Kidding…

Seriously folks, we should all be upset at the Sasketchewan tourists, I don’t see to many of them anymore. Also anyone know who put the bomp, in the bomp, shibomp, shibomp?

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