Advice needed on buying a property in Fernie setting up chal

[wilko]

Hi all,

I spent two weeks in Fernie during the 2003/2004 ski season and fell in love with the place!

I am looking to make a permanent move over there next year in preparation for the 2006/2007 season and I am looking to purchase a large property to run as a catered guesthouse.

I don’t really know the area extensively but could anyone point me in the right direction with a few things.

Would I be better to look at property on the hill or in the town?

If in the town, where is the best area to be located, bearing in mind I want to operate year round for biking/fishing/hiking etc.

I’ve seen a big rise in property prices in the past 2 years there, do you feel these will continue to rise with more development on the ski hill?

I am a freindly laid back British guy, when I was last there it was a very friendly place and i’m hoping I would be accepted and fit in with the community. Is there any hostility towards “foreigners” coming over there and setting up in business?

Any help greatly appreciated. I will be combining a ski trip with some investigation work in January and cant wait to be out there again!

Thanks

Wilko

[griz-boy]

Well Wilko everybody will have a different answer. Here’s mine:

I spent two weeks in Fernie during the 2003/2004 ski season and fell in love with the place!
[i:h7rxljfy]Most people do and not uncommon for Brit’s to buy property here on impulse.[/i:h7rxljfy]

I am looking to make a permanent move over there next year in preparation for the 2006/2007 season and I am looking to purchase a large property to run as a catered guesthouse.

I don’t really know the area extensively but could anyone point me in the right direction with a few things.
Would I be better to look at property on the hill or in the town?
[i:h7rxljfy]The resort would be your best bet because of its close proximity to ski hill ammenities.[/i:h7rxljfy]

If in the town, where is the best area to be located, bearing in mind I want to operate year round for biking/fishing/hiking etc.
[i:h7rxljfy]See above. I feel people want the mountain experience when vacationing in the mountains, and a lodge will give that. The homes in town have historical charm but don’t give you the lodge feeling you would get at the resort. That said there are many affordable B&B’s in town.[/i:h7rxljfy]

I’ve seen a big rise in property prices in the past 2 years there, do you feel these will continue to rise with more development on the ski hill?
[i:h7rxljfy]Still rising just not at a silly rate anymore.[/i:h7rxljfy]

I am a freindly laid back British guy, when I was last there it was a very friendly place and i’m hoping I would be accepted and fit in with the community. Is there any hostility towards “foreigners” coming over there and setting up in business?
[i:h7rxljfy]A foreigner in Fernie is someone that hasn’t had there great grandfather live in Fernie. So we are all foreigners. As you say Fernie is laid back if you treat people kindly they will treat you with the same respect, cept the skids.[/i:h7rxljfy]

Any help greatly appreciated. I will be combining a ski trip with some investigation work in January and cant wait to be out there again!
[i:h7rxljfy]Hope your investigation goes well, Sherlock.[/i:h7rxljfy]

[wilko]

thanks for that info Griz, much appreciated. I was thinking more the mountain in the first place but as i’m doing it on my own it would be nice to be in town in the quieter months where i can get to make some friends etc and feel more involved in the community aspect.

i had considered offering the chalet as rental on its own for summer months and just renting a room in town over the summer.

I guess it comes down to what people want and some folks prefer to have a place for themselves and not be staying with the owner!

Wilko

[griz-boy]

"wilko":1gj0fx3z wrote:

i had considered offering the chalet as rental on its own for summer months and just renting a room in town over the summer.

Wilko[/quote:1gj0fx3z]

You might have a hard time renting it out in the summer at the resort. Its a simple business fact, supply and demand.

[alba]

Hi

First, good luck if this is really what you want to do, but be warned it is bloody hard work and there are no garantees.

You should be aware that there are already 5 catered chalets in Fernie. Canadian Powder Tours in West Fernie (been here about 10 years, includes ski guiding in rates, owners are chef & ski instructor) Ghostrider Lodge on the Ski Hill (been here 4 years, sleeps 20, ski-in ski-out) Beavertail Lodge on the ski hill (been here 3 years, run by a top chef, all rooms en-suite) Elk View Lodge on Cokato road (been here 2 years, huge luxury lodge sleeps 22) Bear Trail Lodge at Alpine Trails (been here 1 year, owners are keen bikers so already have a good handle on the summer market) plus Alpine Lodge (ski hill) which is run along similar lines (B&B with full restaurant on premises) and Beaver Chalet B&B (in town) which offers a meal plan. Mountainside Inn on the ski hill was also purchased a year ago and the owners plan to run a catered chalet after their baby is born. Another chalet on the ski hill has also just been sold, and was previously run by Nielson as a catered chalet.

So first up there is no shortage of catered chalets in Fernie. Can you offer something better than one of those? That would be what you would need to compete. None of these businesses are overflowing with guests, and if I had a choice I would say Fernie has enough catered chalets for now, it could do with a few more in about 4 years.

Most are run by Brits (I think the only one that is not is Canadian Powder tours) When we opened ours (one of the above, I’ll keep you guessing) we visited all the other owners and recieved every possible response, from very welcoming to downright hostile. We’ve had exactly the same from the locals, some love the ski hill and realise that Canada is a nation of foreigners, others think hospitality is killing their little private town and driving house prices to levels locals can’t afford.

You’ll find that the water and sewer rates on the ski hill are crippling, and property tax (like council tax) is pretty painful.

Fernie has a great market in the UK, and about 75% of Brits who come here look at purchasing proprty – seriously.

The lifestyle is definately the thing to come for, but basically you need to be able to pay for it. After the first two or three years you might be achieving 50% average occupancy over the four month season. By the time you pay your food costs, fuel and hot-tub supplies, firewood, utilities & services plus advertising & marketing, you will be struggling to pay 12 months of mortgage on a property big enough to sleep 10 – 20 people plus staff (you). Summer rentals are next to none existant for catered chalets. You could try and do the B&B route, but there’s already several B&B’s in town. The rental agencies won’t give valuable summer business away to properties that are only available in the in the summer when they have lots of year-round clients that need their properties filled. The fishing guides all have their accommodation sorted. Mountain bikers want budget accommodation, not nice chalets.

You probably heard about the rain last season. In mid-January it rained heavily and non-stop for 48 hours, washing away most of the snow. We then had two weeks of nothing, and the ski-hill was all but closed. Then, hallelujah, it snowed, and snowed, and snowed, and all was well with the world again. Or was it? The reports of the rain had been pretty comprehensive, and overseas people were to scared to make the trip after that. We were lucky, we had a lot of advance bookings, but I know that one chalet only had 29 occupied nights for the entire season. They didn’t get a single enquiry after the rain, despite all the snow that fell in February.

And remember, catered chalets only appeal to Brits. Trying to attract the North American market is an uphill battle. They love it once they are there, but don’t count on getting any bookings in advance.

I’m not saying don’t do it, but think very very carefully before you make the commitment. Good luck if you do go ahead with it, and I’d be happy to meet with you and show you what we have done when you are over in January.

[skinnybob]

One more thing to consider: as a non-Canadian resident, be prepared to fork out between 35% and 50% for the downpayment on a property. That may not be that much considering the exchange rate between the Pound and the Canadian dollar, but it is something to keep in mind and it could put quite a dent in your start-up budget.

[jeff p-yo]

[quote:lvmlg2e3][b:lvmlg2e3]Hi

First, good luck if this is really what you want to do, but be warned it is bloody hard work and there are no garantees.

You should be aware that there are already 5 catered chalets in Fernie. Canadian Powder Tours in West Fernie (been here about 10 years, includes ski guiding in rates, owners are chef & ski instructor) Ghostrider Lodge on the Ski Hill (been here 4 years, sleeps 20, ski-in ski-out) Beavertail Lodge on the ski hill (been here 3 years, run by a top chef, all rooms en-suite) Elk View Lodge on Cokato road (been here 2 years, huge luxury lodge sleeps 22) Bear Trail Lodge at Alpine Trails (been here 1 year, owners are keen bikers so already have a good handle on the summer market) plus Alpine Lodge (ski hill) which is run along similar lines (B&B with full restaurant on premises) and Beaver Chalet B&B (in town) which offers a meal plan. Mountainside Inn on the ski hill was also purchased a year ago and the owners plan to run a catered chalet after their baby is born. Another chalet on the ski hill has also just been sold, and was previously run by Nielson as a catered chalet.

So first up there is no shortage of catered chalets in Fernie. Can you offer something better than one of those? That would be what you would need to compete. None of these businesses are overflowing with guests, and if I had a choice I would say Fernie has enough catered chalets for now, it could do with a few more in about 4 years.

Most are run by Brits (I think the only one that is not is Canadian Powder tours) When we opened ours (one of the above, I’ll keep you guessing) we visited all the other owners and recieved every possible response, from very welcoming to downright hostile. We’ve had exactly the same from the locals, some love the ski hill and realise that Canada is a nation of foreigners, others think hospitality is killing their little private town and driving house prices to levels locals can’t afford.

You’ll find that the water and sewer rates on the ski hill are crippling, and property tax (like council tax) is pretty painful.

Fernie has a great market in the UK, and about 75% of Brits who come here look at purchasing proprty – seriously.

The lifestyle is definately the thing to come for, but basically you need to be able to pay for it. After the first two or three years you might be achieving 50% average occupancy over the four month season. By the time you pay your food costs, fuel and hot-tub supplies, firewood, utilities & services plus advertising & marketing, you will be struggling to pay 12 months of mortgage on a property big enough to sleep 10 – 20 people plus staff (you). Summer rentals are next to none existant for catered chalets. You could try and do the B&B route, but there’s already several B&B’s in town. The rental agencies won’t give valuable summer business away to properties that are only available in the in the summer when they have lots of year-round clients that need their properties filled. The fishing guides all have their accommodation sorted. Mountain bikers want budget accommodation, not nice chalets.

You probably heard about the rain last season. In mid-January it rained heavily and non-stop for 48 hours, washing away most of the snow. We then had two weeks of nothing, and the ski-hill was all but closed. Then, hallelujah, it snowed, and snowed, and snowed, and all was well with the world again. Or was it? The reports of the rain had been pretty comprehensive, and overseas people were to scared to make the trip after that. We were lucky, we had a lot of advance bookings, but I know that one chalet only had 29 occupied nights for the entire season. They didn’t get a single enquiry after the rain, despite all the snow that fell in February.

And remember, catered chalets only appeal to Brits. Trying to attract the North American market is an uphill battle. They love it once they are there, but don’t count on getting any bookings in advance.

I’m not saying don’t do it, but think very very carefully before you make the commitment. Good luck if you do go ahead with it, and I’d be happy to meet with you and show you what we have done when you are over in January.[/b:lvmlg2e3][/quote:lvmlg2e3]

way to point out only the negative! afraid of a bit more competition are ya?

Wilko: I’ve been trying to making plans to set up shop in Fernie for quite some time now, only a different type of business, however I’ve got to say that this guy is totally trying to drive you away from realizing your dreams!!

Fernie is a growing year-round resort and although he’s right in saying that things will pick up in a number of years, it’s already started and now is the time to get a foot hold.

don’t let this guy turn you off.

In answer to your questions, these are my answers:

-go for close to town (walking distance) but preferably not in the south of town on the right bank of the river however (at least until they put another bridge in.).. if they ever do.
-properties may rise due other developments in the area besides the ski hill.
-there really isn’t any hostility towards “foreigners”.

hope this helps a bit anyways. I look forward to doing business with you in the future!!

[gagbandit]

Hi Wilko

Hmmmm – two quite different replies you’ve had. Jeff P-yo seems to say throw caution to the wind and go for it while Alba seems informed, in the market already and cautious. While Alba may not relish the prospect of more competition, they sound like they are having a challenge making a go of it – I’m not surprised.

I am a recreational home owner in Fernie, and have often considered developing a portion of my property to target foreign vistors. While you are considering somthing much more involved, I haven’t done even a simpler version as I’ve always had trouble “making the numbers work”. You will get ski season visitors for the mid DEC-APR timeframe. Then from a recreational visitor perpective you can pretty much forget it. In the off ski season the vacancy rate for most every type of accomodation soars. Do your homework, be prepared to float this venture for a while be fore you break even and Good luck whatever you choose.

[alba]

Hi again, and thanks to Gagbandit for seeing it how it really is.

I don’t think “good luck” “I’d be happy to show you what we’ve done when you come over in January” and “Fernie has a great market in the UK” is pointing out the negative, but there you go.

This guy was asking advice about what is involved. Just about everybody who visits Fernie wants to live here and set up a business. It doesn’t take much vision to see how great it is to live here and how much potential the place has – the bit that makes it tough is understanding what can make it difficult, those things sometimes are not so obvious. If one little email that points out a few (and there are many more, trust me) things that could go wrong would put you off coming here, then you are not cut out for it. A positive attitude goes a long way but it doesn’t pay the bills.

Of the chalets owners that have started up since mine, I have done business with them, and even had them over for coffee, dinner and my birthday party. I have no problem with competition, I am proud of my product and confident that it will survive. I was just trying to be informative.

Alba

[jeff p-yo]

^I’m just saying that you may have come off a little ….oh, defensive of your territory…maybe.

sorry for the challenge, but after that long post of “hurdles” I needed to say something positive!!

It is good that you pointed out some of the concerns that not only you but other business owners in the area may be having, however, the overall feel of your post was a little ‘doom and gloom’.

Perhaps, I’m just a little sensitive to this sort of thing as an aspiring Fernie business owner.

To Wilko:

visit the town of Fernie sites on the web, keep up on the stats surrounding the area, check up on real estate and most importantly do the trip in January. Spend more time in and around Fernie to find out what’s really happening, cuz 2 weeks my friend, is NOT a long enough time!!

At any rate…carry on…

[big beaver]

Hi Wilko,
I operate a chalet here in Fernie and agree with all the previous posts. True it can be a difficult venture to start and financially sustain, considering the length of the ski season, risising property prices and taxes, and all the other reasons Alba has pointed out. However there are also a lot of pluses to consider. The area and tourism are still growing, maybe not as fast as everyone expected but still growing. A few local accomodators have all said this has been the best summer ever(including some located on the hill). Fernie is still an affordable place to consider doing an operation such as you are planning, compared to any other resort in Europe, and many in Nth America and Canada. Property prices are still rising but not as crazy as a couple of years ago, it would still be a good time to get in. But one of the biggest pluses is the friendliness of the people here. Everyone that I have encountered since moving here has been incredibly friendly; even those who are my competitors. We reguarly will refer guests to each other if we are full and help each other out when possible.
In regard to your proposed location, from my experience people want ski in/out on the mountain. Although this may be harder during summer there are businesses on mountain that have commented that occupancy is increasing every year. Where I am located the majority of people live on the mountain year round which makes it a really nice friendly neighborhood.
If this is your dream then go for it, I cannot think of a better place to set up a business and live. Give me a shout when your here in Jan if you have any further questions, I would be happy to help.
Good Luck

[wilko]

thank you all so much for your replies – i did reply to Alba’s first post but I did this through a PM, so I havent been ignoring the posts that you guys have all kindly replied with!!

I did really apprecaite Alba’s post becasue it is good to get a balanced view of this and that’s something I need. I am very grateful for the kind offers of meeting up with some of you when I am over there in January. I am only coming out for 10 days but I am also coming over for 1 month in April now as well.

It has always been a dream of mine and I would rather come to Canada than live in Europe and that decision is mainly based on two factors – English speaking and friendlyness of locals.

I’m not doing this to get rich or make a load of money, I’ve helped run a company here for 5 years and the long days, constant traffic and hassle has got to me! I’m under no illusions that doing this wont be hard, i know it will be, but being a social person, the idea of working around people all the time who are there to have a good time on holiday and helping to make that happen is far more appealing than having meeting after meeting with miserable over worked difficult people all day! This type of lifestyle is a different kind of hard but one that I feel more in tune with. I am an outdoors person, I love the mountains and feel this is one way of combining a job, a passion and a lifestyle many only dream of. If the resort really grows and gets more and more visitors each year than that will be great for all and yes, I might make some fairly ok money into the bargain but that’s a plus not a reason for doing it, so long as I can live and pay for it that’s what matters. I may even be able to help out businesses in Fernie with other skills I can offer, I am an IT guy and also a salesman by trade so even if i helped out doing contract marketing or sales or tech stuff when it is quiet that would be ok. I know it’s a small town though lol and probably not a huge amount of this stuff going on!

My main reasons for choosing Fernie is becuase I think it will become ever more popular in the future and it has more potential than any other mountain resort area in Canada.

Even if I come out and only just cover my bills I can take that for a while. I can take a loss for 2 years as well but obviously wouldnt want that to continue, we all have to live!!

anyway, really looking forward to meeting some of you, the beers will be on me if you can and I would love to do that and have a chat face to face with some of you!!

Please feel free to PM or e-mail me with contact details so i can get in touch.

Thanks all

Wilko

[gagbandit]

To Jeff-po

Hi Jeff, you mentioned in your post that you yourself are an “aspiring business owner”. What business are you in ? …commercial please

[kingelk]

HOWDY DUDE , JUST GO WITH YOUR GUT AND GET THE BALL ROLLING, I,VE RAN A INTERNATIONAL HOSTEL (THERE VERY PICKY ABOUT NAME DROPING ON THIS SITE SO I CAN,T SAY THE NAME BECAUSE THEY WILL GET UP ME BUT IT HAS ELK IN IT) lol………… but one thing to think about is maybe waiting till next spring , because by then we could have just been through the big birdflu pandemick and the econemy could be in ruines and heaps could be dead and mass forclosure could happen and you could find that dream for super cheap as most will not be able to pay off there morgages and loose it all, but not to sound to harsh
get your ass over here this winter for some great snow , i,d be happy to give you more relevant info , cheers and good luck , and most people in town are great , but i hope you would never take negitive advice to hart over the net , as some are just worried they may have to step upto the plate…………………..

[Author]

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